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[wbell]

So, will my sample files help?  Or, did I waste my time?


Thanks.

WBELL

[van]

I used your sample files as a test for the JCalPro ICS parser. Seeing the same four events output from Outlook, iCal and Sunbird was useful. I believe they were incorrectly labeled, though, as you had two events which indicated they were for a recurring event, yet only one was a recurring event. (If that is not correct, please let us know, but it doesn't seem possible from the event data I saw.)

What would be most useful is sample ICS data for each of the possible recurring event types from each application. The few events you included in the ICS files you posted earlier demonstrated important differences in how these applications treat various events, and I imagine there will be some significant differences here, as well.

The next issue is the ensure that JCalPro supports all of those possible recurring event types, to ensure there is a record type capable of accepting those types of events. This is the general JCalPro update that V-man indicated was necessary before ICS import could be possible. That work is mostly complete, but there are two more recurring event types that must be included, then we must review the ICS specifications to see if there are others.

And finally, some research must be done into the most popular calendar programs besides the ones for which you sent samples (for example, you mentioned Google Calendar earlier). Sample ICS files from each of those services or application which include all of their possible event types should be created and tested for compatibility.

One problem demonstrated by the ICS files you posted is the fact that Outlook produces formatted descriptions in the form of complete HTML-tagged pages, with DOCTYPE, CHARSET, TITLE, HEAD, CSS links, etc. That means in order to import formatted descriptions from Outlook, the JCalPro ICS import function will have to include a fairly sophisticated HTML page parser to strip these "pages" down to the basic formatting needed to produce HTML descriptions for JCalPro.

[wbell]

...I believe they were incorrectly labeled, though, as you had two events which indicated they were for a recurring event, yet only one was a recurring event. (If that is not correct, please let us know, but it doesn't seem possible from the event data I saw.)

...Each have the same events: an All-Day Test Event, a Reoccurring Test Event, and a 2-Hour Test Event...

According to my post, I only had one recurring event. (Oops... I just noticed that I called it "reoccurring"; it should be "recurring".)

What would be most useful is sample ICS data for each of the possible recurring event types from each application.

Do you want them all?  Daily, Weekly, Monthly, and Yearly?  There is also "Range of recurrence".  There are infinite range possibilities here, but these are the main choices:

-- Start
-- No end date
-- End after: # of occurrences
-- End by: date

One problem demonstrated by the ICS files you posted is the fact that Outlook produces formatted descriptions in the form of complete HTML-tagged pages, with DOCTYPE, CHARSET, TITLE, HEAD, CSS links, etc. That means in order to import formatted descriptions from Outlook, the JCalPro ICS import function will have to include a fairly sophisticated HTML page parser to strip these "pages" down to the basic formatting needed to produce HTML descriptions for JCalPro.

I agree.  It will have to parse the file and remove "junk".  However, the standard formatting of ICS files, in all formats, should be very similiar.  Theoretically, this means that your parser could just look for key differences.

Example:

<SUDOCODE>
The parser reads the file and looks for the symbols < and >.
The parser then compares the data, within these symbols, to a list of invalid tags.
If the parser finds a match, it strips the code and proceeds on.
Otherwise, it leaves the code intact.
</SUDOCODE>

I know... I know... It's easier said, than done; but, this would be a good starting point.

It sounds like you guys have been working very hard, and I don't mean to "fuel the fire", but I do firmly believe that an strong import feature could double, or even triple, the size of this project's community!  And if this happens, you'll have more donations, your customer base will increase, you'll have additional coders, etc... etc...

Good Luck, and again...  Let me know what I can do to help!!



WBELL

[van]

According to my post, I only had one recurring event. (Oops... I just noticed that I called it "reoccurring"; it should be "recurring".)

But the ICS datafile itself had two events labelled recurring, though only one appeared to be ... just wanted to make sure this was a mistake, not some extremely subtle way the apps might flag a recurring event that went unnoticed.

Do you want them all?  Daily, Weekly, Monthly, and Yearly?  There is also "Range of recurrence".  There are infinite range possibilities here, but these are the main choices:

-- Start
-- No end date
-- End after: # of occurrences
-- End by: date

Unfortunately, yes we do. This is a good demonstration of why these new feature are not as trivial as many might think. We must test data for every supported event type, as generated by the each of top ICS calendar programs (not just imported and re-exported ... actually created fresh in each one), with a range of dates and times, from a sufficient variety of timezones (due to how ICS can either store the record in "Zulu time" [GMT] and you must do the translation to the user's timezone, but also supports records generated for a specific timezone), deciding which JCalPro category to use since those aren't in the ICS standard, deciding what to do with Public versus Private records since this may be a future JCalPro enhancement, while also considering JCalPro options that could affect the import like user permissions for that particular category, whether HTML descriptions are enabled or not, plus a couple of dozen other things, then testing on PHP4, PHP5, UNIX versus Microsoft servers (significant differences in how time conversions are specified and handled).

It would at least save a bit of time if someone could help with the generation of all that test data.

I agree.  It will have to parse the file and remove "junk".  However, the standard formatting of ICS files, in all formats, should be very similiar.  Theoretically, this means that your parser could just look for key differences.

The key word is "theoretically". Do a visual compare of the datafiles you sent already and you will see *SIGNIFICANT* difference in the interpretation of the standard and wide variations in data output just from those. It will only get worse as we expand the testing to other record types. And, I personally want to chastise the authors of this standard, as they made a number of choices that unnecessarily increase the complexity of the data parsing, wasting everyone's time.

The primary ICS parser code for JCalPro is already written and works, and only needs to be revised as we test the new record types and identify other anomalies. Then the parser/stripper code for HTML event descriptions must be included and tested. But, as V-man said before, the first order of business is to make sure there are suitable recurring event types in JCalPro to convert these records to, and that work is wrapping up now.

After all of that, the record import itself will be trivial. Then after that, the testing and validation will be time-consuming.

[van]

It sounds like you guys have been working very hard, and I don't mean to "fuel the fire", but I do firmly believe that an strong import feature could double, or even triple, the size of this project's community!  And if this happens, you'll have more donations, your customer base will increase, you'll have additional coders, etc... etc...

Good Luck, and again...  Let me know what I can do to help!!

It's a valuable feature. It is not #1 on the community's list, as it is on yours, but still valuable.

Most JCalPro implementations are standalone event publishing tools, and JCalPro is already the finest Joomla calendar program available for that, so this feature will not drastically increase usage, but it is still valuable.

Donations are very rare, so all of this effort probably won't generate enough cash to pay your cable bill for a month.

Coders willing to dedicate significant time to the JCalPro project are perhaps more rare than donations.

It's not about the money ... it's about producing the best product and the best support for the community. So, thanks for your support!

[redneck]

Hey vann and others in this thread. I am looking to use Joomla for my church website. We have been using Outlook for sometime to manage our Calendars there. I am very interested in a way that I could export my calendars to an ics file then import it to JCal. I would also contribute some of my time in testing. I believe if more people knew that JCal could utilize the ics or vcs file then they would convert to JCal. I for one need this feature badly so that I can build a new Joomla site for our church.

Thanks,
redneck

[wbell]

...I am looking to use Joomla for my church website. We have been using Outlook for sometime to manage our Calendars there. I am very interested in a way that I could export my calendars to an ics file then import it to JCal...

Hey, I was planning on making a church website too!  First, however, I have to finish the site I'm on.  So far, JCal is the best looking calendar for Joomla, but, as you can see in the posts above, it just needs a few more features to be excellent. V-man and Van have been working with me (I think), to get an ICS import feature working.  However, it seems that the current community wants the "Recurring Events" feature more (at least that's what V-man and Van are telling me).  I'm sure that an import/export feature will be implemented, but "when" is the question that is hard to get answered. It seems like it might be awhile.

I believe if more people knew that JCal could utilize the ics or vcs file then they would convert to JCal. I for one need this feature badly so that I can build a new Joomla site for our church.

This is exactly the idea that I've been trying to convey here.  This is a feature that EVERY major calendaring program has. JCal has made it this far, but it needs a little boost.  Once again, it'll get there....eventually.



Thanks, for the contribution, redneck.

WBELL

[redneck]

So let me ask you this. I am using iCal right now on a website. I noticed when I make a change to a recurring event in Outlook and then export to the ics file the recurring events dont change in the ics file and on the Clendar page. Does this have something to do with recurring events and ics?

[Cedeira]

I think you have a great project going here. I would discourage the idea of building any more "themes" or such things and concentrate on "needs/requirements" for the users. I think this feature should be in your top two, the other one being the more advanced recurring events. The current recurring events feature is more than sufficient for my use, maybe not for all other users of JCal. But, I would suggest you take a poll or simple study of how many of us would donate $30 to $50 for a feature to import/export to Outlook, build it based on your study and then bill the $30 to $50 when you release it and give some incentive to those of us who would pay for it, like not realeasing it to general users who don pay for another 6 months or so. Or better yet, make the importing feature and the "advanced recurring events" part of a list of features to pay for, so that if anyone needs them they will pay for them to use them. I am sure that most of us will bill someone else for the feature on a website or pass on the cost to our clients. This country was built on the latter system ! 

As long as it goes towards this feature, let me know and I will put in the required donation. I would suggest that the iCal and the Outlook function are probably the only ones you need to compete against all calendar/event Joomla extensions ! why ? because if you can import/export to Outlook, Outlook can import and export to most anything and the same goes for the iCal format. I agree that such a feature is probably more in the $750 range than in the $50 range, but if all of us that need it donate $50 then I think you can reach the $750 in no time.

Keep up the good work !

Regards,
J

[wbell]

I think you have a great project going here. I would discourage the idea of building any more "themes" or such things and concentrate on "needs/requirements" for the users. I think this feature should be in your top two, the other one being the more advanced recurring events. The current recurring events feature is more than sufficient for my use, maybe not for all other users of JCal. But, I would suggest you take a poll or simple study of how many of us would donate $30 to $50 for a feature to import/export to Outlook, build it based on your study and then bill the $30 to $50 when you release it and give some incentive to those of us who would pay for it, like not realeasing it to general users who don pay for another 6 months or so. Or better yet, make the importing feature and the "advanced recurring events" part of a list of features to pay for, so that if anyone needs them they will pay for them to use them. I am sure that most of us will bill someone else for the feature on a website or pass on the cost to our clients. This country was built on the latter system ! 

As long as it goes towards this feature, let me know and I will put in the required donation. I would suggest that the iCal and the Outlook function are probably the only ones you need to compete against all calendar/event Joomla extensions ! why ? because if you can import/export to Outlook, Outlook can import and export to most anything and the same goes for the iCal format. I agree that such a feature is probably more in the $750 range than in the $50 range, but if all of us that need it donate $50 then I think you can reach the $750 in no time.

Keep up the good work !

Regards,
J

Good idea!  I hope they consider this.

It's been a few months since I've posted, and it seems that no progress has been made.  There hasn't even been an incremental version update.

I love the look and feel of this calendar (very professional), but it definitely needs some help in this area!



WBELL

[elgabito]

We are in the same boat as the others, if there will not be an ICS/outlook/ical import/export feature very soon we will either have to create our own or look elsewhere in a calendar.

We would most assuredly be willing to donate $ to get this done.

[maxownz]

So you want to export your jcal calendars to .ics files? I took a stab at it and came up with something that works for me so hopefully it suffices for you.

Instead of charging $5 to download it and try it out (cough::cough:: points fingers at selfish developers), I've attached it for free in hopes that the community will help develop it further because they want/need to.

You can put the file anywhere on your server and run it like so:

http://jcal-site.com/create_ical.php?name=NAME&id=ID&cal=CALENDAR_ID

and you should be prompted to download a file called NAME_ID.ics with all the events from the calendar with CALENDAR_ID (can be found on backend)

I've tested this importing to iCal on Mac OSX and importing to Google Calendar. It worked fine importing the title, description, start time, end time, and does any recurring you might have enabled.

As I try to integrate this with jcal, I'll probably use joomla's variables for the mysql user/pass/db. If I have time, I'll look into importing .ics files into jcal.

I'd love to hear your comments and critiques. A few crappy PHP programmers should be able to add this import/export feature without taking up the developers precious time and charging money.

[wbell]

WOW!  Great start, maxownz!

I can't wait to see your import script.  It's what we've really been wanting, but this is a GREAT start!


=)

WBELL

[V-man]

Great start maxowns.  hope you get it integrated...users should be wary having stand-alone php files on their site that do not have Joomla's security protection.

[wbell]

Great start maxowns.  hope you get it integrated...users should be wary having stand-alone php files on their site that do not have Joomla's security protection.

Very true V-man, but at least maxownz is showing some progress!


WBELL